Reactions to
Weaving the Web
by Tim Berners-Lee

Chapter 12: Mind to mind
plus the video: Nerds 2.0.1, Part III

Lindsay Alaishuski
In Berners-Lee's eyes, "The Web is far from 'done'" (158). But the question I propose is "Will the Web ever be 'done'?" Improvements and changes are being made to the Web's structure every moment of the day. The Web will never achieve perfection, and if completion means perfection, the Web will never be 'done'. Consumers, businesspeople, educators- people in general- are not easily satisfied. Presently, Berners-Lee is dissatisfied with having to wait to get connected to the internet. Tomorrow, when internet speed increases even more and a sign-on isn't necessary, he'll find yet another reason to be dissatisfied, for example, that he has to tell the computer what to do, and that the computer won't be able to 'mind read' and know exactly what he wants. Perhaps this shows that Berners-Lee is an overachiever, but it may also imply that he's just a constant complainer. Personally, I think it's great that he's not satisfied with where the Web stands today. Even though the Web is a relatively 'new' technology (compared to things like toasters or tv's), by reading this book and just plain observing the changes i've noticed while using the Web is a fascinating thing. Changes spark and keep people interested, like myself and probably just about every other technology-lover.

Although quite confusing in Chapter 9, the idea of XML is becoming a bit clearer. I had heard of Java and HTML, but never this language that seems to be growing in popularity. XML provides a ton of flexibility to the user. In my opinion, sometimes creativity is sacrificed when new technology comes about. However, XML does give the option for people to create their own tags and even markup languages. At the same time, XML is a "well defined" system that will make the Web more orderly and creative at the same time.

Diana Applegate
"I have always imagined the information space as something to which everyone has immediate and intuitive access, and not just to browse, but to create."

As college students, we have fairly dependable, quick access to the WWW. I often forget how privileged I really am until I go home and try to dial into AOL with my family's 56k modem that usually connects at 33k, if I'm lucky. The notions of speed and immediacy are very prevalent not only in terms of Internet access, but also regarding the computer's microprocessor itself. Almost instantly upon purchasing a new computer, it becomes obsolete. Our technologically-savvy society has a dire "need for speed", and the evolution of technology itself at once quenches and further perpetuates this desire. How fast will things get? How soon will we have immediate access to the WWW? What will come next, if we ever do reach that point?

The majority of casual web users are familiar with browsing, but may no know how to create a webpage. Interestingly enough, Berners-Lee envisions the ability to create on the web as being just as important as browsing. Whem friends and family learn that I know how to make a webpage, they usually respond by saying something like, "Wow, I have absolutely no clue how to do that." Then I try to explain how easy it really is, and they respond by saying, "Oh no, I could never do it!", as if one must possess magical powers to work in HTML. Perhaps these ideas result from the not-so-new feelings about technology and machines as being intimidating and therefore only operable by a certain type of person. I hope, as Tim does, that "ordinary" WWW users will embrace HTML in the coming years and make it their own.

Berners-Lee also emphasizes throughout the book how the (virtual) WWW has "real" effects on our daily lives. Philosophers and postmodernists often have written about this blurring of the distinction between the real world and the so-called virtual world due to the technological advancements of the last few decades. In the past few years, the WWW has become a reality that all of us engage in, and encourages us to redefine the traditional binary opposition between the real and the virtual.

I think it's important that Tim and the W3C recognize that web access, although widespread, is limited to those of a certain economic class and physical status, which often excludes the disabled. Since the web is a very real part of society at this point, universal access is a key (yet lofty) issue to pursue.

As for the movie, I found part 2 to be quite interesting, although I'm getting tired of seeing the host driving around in order to visually re-enact the "information highway" metaphor! The Cisco story was amazing, and I'm glad that Sandy didn't completely run away from the evil corporate world...I love Urban Decay!!

Hilary Chamberlain
I think that this chapter sort of loses me in the differences between the different languages, the different types of graphics files, etc. Too much technical info that I don't really have a background to understand. Berners-Lee talks about how there is an effort now to make different languages, different alphabets and characters. I would have thought they would have worked this out before now, especially since the view for the web is a global one. It's pretty obvious that not everyone speaks English. I also think that this chapter is a lot of repeatition of his core philosophy of the web and how he wants it to be. Not that that is particularly a bad thing; it's like a reinforcemnet chapter, at least that's the way I look at it.

about Nerds: I thought overall it was a very interesting set of documentaries. I like how they have bits and pieces at a time, makes the information a little easier to swallow. I thought the discussion of Microsoft and Bill Gates was pretty interesting, and it was definately interesting how they portrayed him and his associates on the video. I understand that Microsoft has provided the US and the world with a lot of good products, many of which I use, and I don't know what it would be like without any of them. But that doesn't mean that I can't think he's a jerk, and that's how he comes off, and it doesn't really give his company a really good reputation. And that's awesome if his company is a great place to work in, but I can bet money that it's not just him that makes the place great.

I am also pretty sure that he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did if he wasn't a smart guy, with lots of natural drive to succeed and make money. And I am sure that his being a jerk probably helped him out a lot of times.

I am also in an intro to econ class, where we spent quite a bit of time talking about monopolies and why they just aren't any good. There are natural monopolies, which you can't do much about, and then there are companies similar to Microsoft which monopolize a particular market, and we spent a lot of time talking about why they really aren't good. having your hands in everything and taking out significant sections of many markets and scaring away any competition certainly doesn't help promote the small companies trying to come up with new and better ways for doing things. And if Gates didn't have these companies coming up with all these great ideas, I would bet it would take them tons of time longer to figure it all out.

On a different note, I think it's interesting how they empasized all the money you can make, and everyone had nice cars, and had X and X revenues and profits, and so and so was worth a particular amount. It's definately a different attitude than Berners-Lee's book. Also, they failed to mention, or totally downplayed the fact that there are so many businesses in software and e-commerce, and all those other good things that just don't make it.

Catherine Chen
I'm very surprised by the scope of Berners-Lee's vision for the web because it seems unlikely that all he envisions could every happen, or if it did, the web would still be biased towards those with web access. There would be a distinct separation between the haves and the have-nots, and I can only imagine that this separation will get wider as technology advances. Berners-Lee sounds very idealistic in this chapter as he explores his dreams, not really concerning himself with how much it would cost to provide everyone with permanent access. It seems like this would have to be something left to the governments to provide.

I'm also surprised by Berners-Lee's vision of networked computers as "social machines," given that many people think that web communication is highly impersonal. Berners-Lee's vision is of the web as a space for informational transfer, a space where debates can be held and opinions can be supported with information. If you have never met the person with whom you've had lengthy web arguments, does that count as social activity? Where is the human element?

I approved of "People would also have a running model of their plans and reasoning. A web knowledge linked through hypertext would contain a snapshot of their shared understanding. When new people joined a group they would have the legacy of decisions and reasons available for inspection. When people left the group, their work would already have been captured and integrated. As an exciting bonus, machine analysis of the web of knowledge could perhaps allow the participants to draw conclusions about management and organization of their collective activity that they would not otherwise have elucidated." My involvement with Bryn Mawr's Student Investment Committee has left me very frustrated that the rapid turnover results in information gaps from one year to the next. It would be wonderful if Bryn Mawr would give us the electronic space to keep minutes of meetings from the last few years posted on the Bryn Mawr server because when minutes are stored on each successive Secretary's disk, they inevitably become erased.

I disagree with Berners-Lee's web should be a space where people can view projects from their very beginning to their end product. That would create a terrible overload of information. It made me think of the Keanu Reeves movie, "Johnnie Mnemonic," in which people suffered from neurological diseases because there was too much information for their minds to handle. I would not take the effort to go through a set of electronic notes and follow somebody's thought processes regarding an essay or an article, and I doubt other people would, too. For humanities, it's the final product that matters. Nobody's going to bother with your notes unless they are already set on disproving you or finding holes in your argument. In scientific communities, however, perhaps notes and electronic citations would be helpful. For people involved in the ongoing project or organization, that might be helpful; for example, we have our own Scratchbook for Orbit and our weekly log. For outsiders, however, how interested will they be in the original Orbit Scratchbook 5 or 6 years from now, assuming that Orbit continues?

I thought this chapter was very intriguing, but I was disturbed by the economic and organizational (collegiate, governmental) obstacles to Berners-Lee's vision of the web.

Sarah Crown
During these few chapters, I really noticed how Tim Berners-Lee intersperses his own commentary with the technical story of the development of the web. For example, at one point in Chapter 9, he discusses protocol independence, location independence, and the XML revolution. After several pages of description, background information, and history, he provides commentary on universality.

Throughout the book, I have found the commentary to be the most helpful in understanding how and why he developed the World Wide Web. Sometimes I become lost in the technical discussions and Internet jargon, but the commentaries provide a clear view of his motivation and goals for the Internet.

In these few chapters, I primarily was intrigued by his discussion of universality on the web. I thought that his idea of the World Wide Web being a mirror image of 'real life' was a great goal, and I think it provides a good inspiration and motivation for those using the web. However, I don't think that the Web will ever be able to completely capture the complexities of the interactions the occur daily in the 'real world'. Beside the complexity of these interactions, he wants the web to be a just and fair society. I don't think that the web will every completely reach all members of the society; while this may pessimistic, world problems like world hunger, poverty, and peace must be settled first. Until these problems are resolved, there will always be people who will not have access to the Internet.

Huong Dang
"In the first part, the Web becomes a much more powerful means for collaboration between people." (157) Moreover, Robert Cringely mentions this point in the video. Since India has a 12-hour difference, companies over in India can immediately correct any mistakes or answer questions American consumers and/or businessmen have. This collaboration between America and India shows the boundless ability of the Web. Optimizing this capability, a democratized world is emerging. (174) There is a more direct linkage between consumer and business men and vice versa. There are no more hassles with operators. The Webís equality to everyone and its flexibility has achieved far reaches of the globe, connecting a developing country like India to America and utilizing it, making something as unimaginable as making Bangalore,India a Silicon Valley of India.

But then one asks: what about the everyday laymen? What are the benefits? Letís take the use of a personal web site. The Web is a medium where exhibitionists can show their work to the WORLD or for the more timid ones to keep the access to a small few, i.e. you, yourself, and your cat. The Web is "essentially independent of geography, race, and religion" (174) and can be "used just as much internally (for your viewing pleasure only)as externally (for Russians, Slovakians, and what not to view). (162) And this " encourages more spontaneous and direct communication." (163) "The Web of work and play must be able to intertwine half-baked and fully baked ideas, and Web technology supports this. (164)" Berners-Lee's vision to have the world connected through the phone line ought to be fully exploited. Hence, the growth of porn on the net, homemade or industry made, I don't discriminate.

However, this explosion of technology has made communication all the more impersonal. Yes, there are fewer hassles with busy signals and mundane conversations, but there is also a loss of interpersonal relationships. The access of the Internet, being unlimitedly free, gives you the opportunity to talk to people everywhere, anywhere, at anytime, but how about our local community? When was the last time you talked to your next door neighbor face-to-face? Or taken a stroll through the park, a REAL park?

If we think back, the industrial age eradicated the feel of community, luring people from the countryside to crowded cities with skyscrapers, traffic jams, and poor air quality. And now the technology age what will this eradicate - our existence, our being? There were times when my obsession for IM was my day's objective or worst! not seeing the sun for weeks and the only form of light was the blinking icon on my computer as I searched the net. But now, my access is cut off (itís a long story). Ironically, I feel amputated from the world not having Internet access in my room. This feeling is a small epiphany for more to come. Imagine a futuristic world where our identity is stored on a machine ñ where and when you were born, where you live, your height, your weight, your age, everything! Then, one day it is erased- erased like a word document, thrown into the recycling bin with no undo button, deleted like a typo. It's like what Tim and the consortium's philosophy for the Web said: "If it isnít on the Web, it doesnít exist." (163). If you're not on the machine, you don't exist. (That is in extreme cases, of course.)

Beth Fedornak
I found that Tim brought up some interesting points in this chapter. Such as why do we have to wait when we turn the computer on or why does it take so long to connect to the Internet? We as users have gotten use to this delay so we never give it a second thought. It reminds me of the movie You've got mail. One of the characters checks their email and it instantly connects. Why can't we live like the movies?

It is clear in this chapter that Tim had a clear purpose for the web - a communication through shared knowledge. It was also to be used for personal information and to be used just as much "internally" as externally. Tim certainly got his wish. The advancements over the last 4-5 years has been phenomena. We now have access to things we could only have dreamed of. And with more companies (such as public and college libraries and coffee houses) setting up free computer use for people to surf it has enabled people to have access to the web without the benefit of owning their own computer. And with the new invention of Web TV an even greater audience for the web will be obtained.

I feel what Tim has to realize is that he has started something that will take years to evolve and during this time there will be aspects of the web/Internet that he will not be happy with. But that's the consequences of an invention. Someone is always going to come behind you and wand to change or enhance your ideas. And as frustrating as it might seem to the free world one day the underdeveloped countries will eventually catch up and we can all reap the benefits of the web.

Tim's invention took years of time and patience. He has to remember that that patience is still needed.

Alicia Jorda
I don't remeber who the general audience is for this book, and I realize that if Berners-Lee went into ever technical detail, the book would be much, much longer. Even still,there are so many things I wish he would expand on (like how drastic the changes to os design would have to be, etc, etc...). At the very least, it goes to show how helpful true hypertext formatting would be in this case.

First off, I would be interested in knowing how computer interactions could become more intuitive on, I guess what Berners-Lee means, a more general level. Granted, Windows is not the most intuitive os out there but at least it's pretty easy to figure out (at least for me). Anyhow, I know this isn't the case for everyone, my mom being a prime example. So what, then, would a more intuitive interface entail?

Also, the whole concept of dynamic webpages (my phrase?), that anyone can add to, seems to be what Berners-Lee had in mind from the begining. Wasn't that the goal of having the browse/editor? I guess I'm just unclear about how this would be implemented and what something like this would look like on the net. It seems that the entire web would have the capability of becoming a discussion forum (or something similar). What would you see when you went to that page: the original document by the author or the latest comments/updates written by readers? Should the original author have any control over the additions to their page?

Ning Lin
There are two points that I liked in this chapter. First point is the dream Tim described. It is a colloboration mixture. It includes the colloboration between people and between people and the computer. Althought the colloboration between people is not new, World Wide Web can lead the colloboration to further. It breaks the geographical limitation and it brings everybody easily together on the web. It makes sharing knowledge possible on the web. I think sharing knowledge is an important factor of development. While the web helps people share knowledge and communicate by using it, people also create the web all the time. Therefore, the web can be improved and created in different ways to help people to make better use of it. Because the web is always open to everyone, web's design is accredited to all the users on the web as well. They pushed the development of web.

The idea of the colloboration between machine and people is very interesting as well. I think this is also the very original idea for humans to invent machine tools. Because knowing to make good use of tools is the major characteristic of humans distinguished from other animals. Therefore, using computer and using web is just an advanced way of making use of tools. It always help people to be more productive and efficient. However, the web has much more significant impact on people's life than those old tools. It totally changes the way that people think and live in this world. It is not hard to find out that we rely on the web a lot in the modern life. You probably do not go to the post office very often anymore, because you can just use e-mail which is much faster and cheaper than normal mail. You probably do not to go out the buy newspaper like what you did before, because you could surf on the web to get the latest news in the world by just one click.You do not need to go out to make friends, instead, you can just go to the online chat room. You will never be lonely on the web, because that is a new way of socilizing with people. Business people do not need to have their trading activities in person, they do not need to fight to one place to have meeting together, because now all these things can be done just on the web.This is a new social system which is independent of geography, race, and religion. It also saves a lot of time and money. In another word, it saves resource. Tim also mentioned that it may isolate the countries which does not have the access to the Internet. I think it might be true in a short run, since some developing countries find hard to have wide and direct access to the Internet. However, the in the long run, this problem should be solved. Because there is a need for those countries to catch up with the rest of this world.

Natalie Regis
I saw this Simpson's episode once. Homer was trying to make some quick money, so he started a bogus web company. When people start getting interested in his company Bill Gates comes to see him with an offer. Homer is excited at the prospect of becoming rich. Unfortunately Bill has other plans. He has his people smash all of Homer's computer equipment, effectively eliminating the competition. I did a search on Bill Gates a few days ago, and I came up with quite a few web pages that are anti-Bill Gates. Things like, Bill Gates: The Anti-Christ?, Bill Gates is Satan, Decapitate Bill Gates, and Bill Gates Bought Our Balls. Bill Gates combines ruthlessness with savy for an unbeatable combination. He does what any real businessman would do. Can you really blame him for that? In nature it's survival of the fittest, should the business world be any different? People don't always play fair.

I like the idea of computers catering to my every whim 24-7. I'm not a very patient person to begin with. I've been known to leave my computer on all day so that it's ready to go when I get back from class or whatever. Last summer I worked at this summer "enrichment" program. One of my jobs was to help kids learn how to surf the web, use computers, etc. The kids were from the poorer districts in the city so their knowledge of computer technology was virtually nonexistent. They didn't have access to computers in their homes either. The computers at the center were a blast from the past. I remembered those from my days in middle school. Not only were they hopelessly outdated but there weren't enough computers for all the children. At the rate technology is advancing, part of the population is being left in the dust.

Megan Rutter
"Once the two-part dream is reached, the Web will be a place where the whim of a human being and the reasoning of a machine coexist in an ideal, powerful mixture." (158)

I believe that Berners-Lee's dream is already a reality; he justs wants to improve what already exists. The Web is exactly what he says he wants it to be. There just exists so many possibilities out there for the web and its direction, that his dream can always be a goal. His goal could actually be considered unobtainable, as he is aspiring for an "ideal" situation. The "ideals" for the web will be constantly changing as the Web develops and is improved upon every day. Before today's goals are even achieved, we will have more goals for tomorrow. The Web is such a fast-growing entity, that it seems boundless. There are no limits. The ideal for permanent access to the interent makes perfect sense, as one spends so much time connecting, when work could be done. The internet experience would be dramatically different if one did not have to wait for any connections. The greatest aspect about this ideal, to me, is that it is plausible. Because of the way the Web is set up, it is possible to eliminate this difference in timing. We have the technology to do this; it's just a matter of regulation.

Berner's-Lee also mentions the set-up of a computer screen, and how "the technology should be transparent, so we interact intuitively." (159) This ideal, too, is possible, if the desire is there to create it. The concept of intuitive interface continues into the discussion of protocols. While Berners-Lee states that "location independence and protocol independence would be very simple if all the software on a computer were being written from scratch. Unfortunately it isn't," (159) he continues to say that he is optimistic about the intuitive interface.

Berners-Lee claims that "the intention was that the Web be used as a personal information system, and a group tool on all scales." (162) The problem with this ideal is the concept of universality. Universality ranges from protocols and standards to internationalization (such as the issues of converting and displaying alphabets.) Once again, these ideal seem obtainable.

As long as the consortium can keep itself five steps ahead of the rest of the world in the ever-changing Web, the dream will always be developing into a reality.

YunWen Shaw
As I keep on mentioning, and continue to be impressed with, is the admirable idealism and purity of Tim Berners-Lee's motivation for designing the web in its present form, and his imagery for what it can and should be in the future. And once again, I feel that it is kind of sad how things have resulted, just like many of the Internet pioneers that were interviewed in the Nerds video. The present-day form of the world wide web as being so much more of a money-grabbing marketing-oriented form, is such a disappointing but understandable jump from the vision that Berners-Lee originally had for his "creation," ...as much more of an intellectual marketplace for debate and the exchange of ideas; a place of pure thought and discussion.

"I imagine human beings doing the thinking and machines helping it work on a larger scale. To move beyond the historical situation of people hurling mud at each other, peppering their arguments, and replace all that with a socratic debate in which individual ideas, pieces of evidence, can be displayed and argued, justified and challenged to look and compare side by side, about what is said...rather than what is claimed by other means of media."

As for the last section of the Nerds video we watched in class, I think that, as cheesy as the whole documentary seemed, it left me with a feeling of excitement and aspiration. It's amazing that everyone who was interviewed and spoke on the video was in consensus that the web is hardly even at the forefront of the Internet revolution. To have been able to witness the growth and development of the web from our standpoint, it is amazing enough for us to have seen the lightning-fast process at which all this technology has hit us, and to know how far we've come in such a short time. It's hardly fathomable to imagine where it could possibly improve. In my last commentary, I wrote on a science fiction novel Snow Crash, and how in the future life and society dwelled on the Internet instead of in reality. I wonder if that could be a possibility, where we have moved from linear text, to hypertext, to java, and soon to virtual reality.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am so disillusioned by all the marketing munchers out there feeding on the potential of the web and in many ways I think, misusing it. For example, in today's section of the documentary, we are introduced (I think a second or third time), to Jim Clarke, money-man behind Netscape. This man is the type of money-starved tycoon that I feel taints everything of pure intent with a business aspect. For him, putting down the three million for Mosaic was nothing more than another fun business venture. He had no idea what it was about, he only saw dollar signs in his eyes. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it was somewhat evident in how he spoke during the interview. Where there seemed to be so many who have based their hopes and dreams on the potential of the net, or at least had some interest in developing its potential, Clarke continued to speak on nothing but money, money, money...and his bitter competition with Microsoft. As I said, it was very disillusioning, and very discouraging also. But at the same time, it made me and I'm sure many others, feel as if we have the ability to work the same miracles as the six Excite college men and the many others we saw.

Grace Shin
The movie this time really focused a lot on the competition and the opportunities that are out there for the internet and the web based businesses. Three things that I really saw was that simplicity is the key to success, that competition is inevitable regardless of who designed the original, and that the web really provides the users with all sorts of different things which is why it is growing so quickly. All in all, this whole expansion of the web seems unimaginable when I try to see just how fast it is growing.

In the film, they stated that things like the browsers and the web itself grew because it was just so simple for the daily users. If it had not been so user friendly and so easy to access from young to old, the success of the web would be questionable. The modernization of how browsers allow everything to be click and enter, really changes the perspective of the older generation and even for those who are not so computer literate. Browsers like internet explorer and netscape really allows the users to see the web pages of eye- catching designs. When I think about how the internet and the web was at first, with just plain text, I don't think I personally would be too interested in creating a business on the web or even having a personal webpage of any sort. However, because we can modify the pages and view the pages as we'd like to, this simplicity really aided in the expansion of the web.

I felt like throughout the movie, the tone of competition wasn't always too friendly among the companies like Microsoft and Netscape and others. It is plainly the truth that no matter who invents what, trying to control it all without competition is quite useless. Thinking back to how people may complain about Microsoft being an unjust company, I feel that many people are forgetting the fact that as consumers, we buy the products that we feel are better for our personal use, especially the ones from Microsoft since we can have it for so much cheaper or so much easier.

Finally, the variety of what's available on the web once again really amazes me and to think that one does not even have to budge from the house and still can get everything done is just really amazing. However, once again, the whole issue of privacy would be once again considered if one was to do that. And also, even with the resources out there, I know that as people of community, we need others for our social satisfaction, so the commerce on computer is totally only for our convenience.

Annie Zipper
I liked the tone of this chapter more than the others. Tim Berners-Lee was very optimistic and practical in his descriptions of his vision of the future of the World Wide Web. His ideas are very good ones, and he again shows that his focus is on communication among people instead of the technology itself. It would be easy for Berners-Lee to sit back having created this hugely successful technology and having written a book about it and live off the profits he has made; instead he continues to improve his invention and make it accessible to all. I admire his efforts and ideas. A quote that stood out to me is found on page 165: "People are using the Web to build things they have not built or written anywhere else. As the Web becomes a primary space for much activity, we have to be careful that it allows for a just and fair society." He acknowledges the shift much of the world has made from "atoms" to "bits" to get jobs done, and warns society against forgetting about the "little people" who don't have such easy access. Tim Berners-Lee really impressed me in this chapter.

Alicia Zukas
When may we be seeing XML? It sounds like its a nice contribution to formatting as well as general convenience to web writers. I do not quite understand how it would work, in that one may designate specific functions to a specific computer- this would then make XML non-universal. "action" does not make much sense to me, either. What exactly can this do? The book discusses it, but does not clearly define what it is. Once again we hear of Marc Andreessen, only in the video, I was quite shocked to see how young he is. The way images are posted, is a bit of a wonder to me. The book describes, GIF, JPEG, PNG, and new 3-D formats, but why are there so many? What are their differences and why are they not compatible with one another?

Both the book and the video discussed the idea of attending a conference without having to go. I am waiting for the time that this will actually be of convenience and not take up so much bandwidth which deems it now impossible (at least on this campus). As silly as the video got at times, and perhaps it was more geared anti-Microsoft, as stated in class. Today's video did a nice job of bringing us up to date on the web advancement, and I liked being able to see Berners-Lee speak.

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